Lotus Elan

plus 2 wheels on "baby" Elan

PostPost by: upnorthelan » Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:36 pm

Not sure if I should post this in "Racing," but I figure street folks have done this as well.

I've got an S4, knock off wheels, running Avon acb 9 tires all around on stock steel wheels (4.5"). These tires are actually made for a 5.5" wheel. I'd love to mount these tires on plus 2 alloy wheels, but I need to know 2 things first. (Pre-appologies because this topic's been brought up before, but I can't find a definative answer w/in old posts)

1. Can I use my existing baby Elan hubs, i.e. just bolt them on? I've read the wider wheels can foul on the lower a-arm and some people are putting on +2 hubs?

2. Do I need to replace the peg drives w/ longer ones? I've read of the recieving holes being wollowed out. Can't visualize how this would happen w/ a tight/ safty wired nut on.

I'd love to run these wider wheels, but I just know (from experience) that things aren't always as simple as they seem on an Elan.
thanks,
Mike
upnorthelan
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 71
Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Location: East Lasing, Michigan

PostPost by: elansprint71 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:45 pm

upnorthelan wrote:Not sure if I should post this in "Racing," but I figure street folks have done this as well.

I've got an S4, knock off wheels, running Avon acb 9 tires all around on stock steel wheels (4.5"). These tires are actually made for a 5.5" wheel. I'd love to mount these tires on plus 2 alloy wheels, but I need to know 2 things first. (Pre-appologies because this topic's been brought up before, but I can't find a definative answer w/in old posts)

1. Can I use my existing baby Elan hubs, i.e. just bolt them on? I've read the wider wheels can foul on the lower a-arm and some people are putting on +2 hubs?

2. Do I need to replace the peg drives w/ longer ones? I've read of the recieving holes being wollowed out. Can't visualize how this would happen w/ a tight/ safty wired nut on.

I'd love to run these wider wheels, but I just know (from experience) that things aren't always as simple as they seem on an Elan.
thanks,
Mike


I'm assuming the lack of response is due to your use of the word "baby" which seems to upset some folks, try calling it a "+0" :wink:
Lots of folks have fitted +2 wheels and tyres; you will need the +2 hubs and there is not much room for error. I fitted them to my car, only to discover that the highly skilled technicians in the Lotus factory had managed to fit the body out of alignment with the chassis- before you start measure the clearance between rear tyres and bodywork, make sure it is the same both sides. I had to take the hubs and wheels off, you can imagine the language.
When I changed the chassis it appeared that there is about an inch side to side play between chassis and body at the rear axle line- plenty of opportunity to get it wrong!
elansprint71
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4092
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Location: Cheshire, UK.

PostPost by: UAB807F » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:11 am

Do you have to fit +2 hubs to fit +2 wheels ? It's a genuine question and not an attempt at wind-up.

I'll admit I've no intention of fitting +2 wheels to my S3 and never looked deeply into it, but I'd always sort of assumed they'd just knock on the same hubs/pegs if I ever wanted to do so ?
User avatar
UAB807F
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 645
Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPost by: collins_dan » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:28 pm

I have plus 2 steel wheels on my S4 and am happy to check if the hubs are original (which I believe they are) or plus 2, if someone tells me what to look for. Dan
User avatar
collins_dan
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1153
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD

PostPost by: gjz30075 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:05 pm

Dan, I believe the part number will begin with a 36, versus a 54 for a +2. Others will hopefully confirm.

Greg Z
Greg Z
45/0243K Sprint
36/5727 pre airflow coupe
User avatar
gjz30075
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2967
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Roswell, Georgia, USA

PostPost by: upnorthelan » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:23 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone,
Now I'm confused as hell. I've spoken to someone since the origonal post and they said origonal hubs are fine. Also spoke to Ken at Dave Bean about it. He wasn't immediately sure, but is trying to find an answer. In the Bean catalog it says the +2 alloys will fit right on an S4. Not sure if later cars like the S4 or Sprints had different hubs from earlier knock on cars? I'll post what I hear from them.

Mike
upnorthelan
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 71
Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Location: East Lasing, Michigan

PostPost by: elanman999 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:26 pm

Hi all,
Here is a pic of the two hubs. The +2 one places the wheel mounting face .5 in further out that the +0. The +2 hub is on the right.
I know someone who does fit +2 wheels to +0 hubs. But I would not drive a car with so much ground off the outer end of the A frames!!!!
Cheers
John
Attachments
IMG_0642rs.JPG and
elanman999
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 443
Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Location: N Yorks

PostPost by: collins_dan » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:29 pm

I'll double check, but based on the pics, my recollection is that mine look like the one on the left for the +0. Also, there is no grinding off of anything on my car, either body or a-frames. Dan
User avatar
collins_dan
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1153
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD

PostPost by: UAB807F » Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:03 pm

Good picture, now that explains the geometry much better than 1000 words ! Seeing those hubs I very much doubt I could get them on my S3 even if I wanted to, the clearances are just too tight with the standard rims and 155 tyres. Or has someone done it and got away with it ?
User avatar
UAB807F
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 645
Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPost by: mac5777 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:35 pm

Take a look on Elan Gallery at Gino's just finished restored S3 Coupe with +2 alloy wheels. He may have your answer.
Sarto

Re: Elan S3 Coup? 1967 Restoration
Hi All,
Restoration finished during my Christmas holidays. A few niggly problems with the clutch due to a new faulty clutch cylinder and now i'm off to register the car.
Hope you like it..........

New project already under way : 1965 S2.

Gino Milano
Italy
lotus elan 1966 S3 FHC
36/5785
LHD
User avatar
mac5777
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 574
Joined: 05 Jul 2004
Location: Northern California

PostPost by: UAB807F » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:25 am

mac5777 wrote:Take a look on Elan Gallery at Gino's just finished restored S3 Coupe with +2 alloy wheels. He may have your answer.
Sarto


Yes, that's a lovely car, no doubt about it that guy has done a great job.

But I think the rear arches are modified, Gino's car looks to have rounder arches with more clearance whereas on mine they come lower down and partially cover the tyre wall and that's where I'd assumed there may be a problem if the hubs placed the wheel further out. Looks great with the wheels though.
User avatar
UAB807F
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 645
Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPost by: mac5777 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:10 am

Hi UAB807F, Look at Gino's first page of the 10,494 viewing and you'll see his wheel arch mods. Its on Elan S3 Coup? 1967 Restoration in the Gallery section.

Sarto
lotus elan 1966 S3 FHC
36/5785
LHD
User avatar
mac5777
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 574
Joined: 05 Jul 2004
Location: Northern California

PostPost by: elansprint71 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:31 am

I thought that I had answered the query in my previous response.
If you put the +2 ALLOY wheels on the +0 hubs, you will hit the coil spring with the side of the tyre, due to the different off-set and extra rim width and there will be a horrible noise as the extra thickness of the alloy rim grinds on the wishbone.

Dan, does your car have the skinny coil springs fitted? I'm not familiar with the width and off-set of +2 steel rims.
elansprint71
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4092
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Location: Cheshire, UK.

PostPost by: garyeanderson » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:56 am

OK so let me bore you some more with another link from a month ago.

elan-f14/suspension-tunning-once-again-t21686.html

Plus2 wheels fit with some work. Its been a while since I owned 45/8221 an S4 with stock arches that were clearanced - ie the return lip mostly removed that I re-built it in 1993. From the start it road on Plus2 wheels on stock Elan knock on hubs. It was built with a Spyder chassis and Spyder arms both front and rear. 2. The springs were 115lb x 12 x 2 inch front springs and 95lb x 12 x 2 1/2 inch springs in the rear both front and rear were adjustable for height. The bolt heads on the outer end of the control arms were ground at an angle to make the rears rims clear. I believe that they were just grade 5 unf bolts with the stock head height (not the special thin heads that are stock on the Elan). The rear control arms were nickel-plated and I don't believe I ground any on the outboard ends. If I remember the Plus2 wheels split the added inch nearly equally so the wheels ended up being only 1/2 inch wider outboard on each side and half an inch towards the brakes. I didn't use Plus2 hubs with this combination. The tires were just some off the shelf 175/70 x 13 Goodyear ST's that were about as tall as you could put on the S4 Elan.

Gary
Attachments
whiterightrear.jpg and
white_in_nantucket_front 1024.jpg and
User avatar
garyeanderson
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3128
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Massachusetts, U.S.A.

PostPost by: collins_dan » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:20 pm

I took a look at the hubs. They are original elan, not plus 2. Plenty of clearance on the a-frames and springs, which are the narrower variety. Unlike Gary's, the return lips are still in place, but the tires are 185/60's, so the rolling radius is smaller. Dan
User avatar
collins_dan
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1153
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests