Lotus Elan

Early S1, S2, and early Coupe Colors

PostPost by: garyeanderson » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:44 pm

Brice Faller was asking about colors used on the early Elans. I found this in the 1966 parts manual. I guess that?s a good reason that why I have sanded off so much Medici Blue as there appears to have been only 4 choices. Not that you couldn't get others but they would have been special ordered and the appropriate extra cash involved.

The color codes are from ( http://www.lotus-europa.com/colors.html ) and doesn't include Medice Blue.

George may have the code as he has painted his early S2 recently and may be able to help with a PPG paint code.
http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15369

Page 128 of the S1, S2, Elan Coupe parts manual (dated 1966) lists the
following for the S1 and S2

CGW 106 - Cirrus White
PJ 6170X0540
ICI P0309049
PPG LOT0053
GLA L04

BF 4768 - Jaguar Racing Green
PJ 6170Y2790
ICI P0302854
PPG LOT0050
GLA L01

CGB 308 - Medici Blue
no codes available

GR 227 - -Carman Red
PJ 6170X5350
ICI P0308385
PPG LOT0388
GLA L05

when the Coupe was introduced (or there abouts) they added

MG British Racing Green
Ford Monico Red
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PostPost by: FritzPasadena » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:01 pm

Interesting. Any ideas about hood colours? My Cirrus White '65 S2 has a grey hood, would this have been available for certain paint colours or were all hoods black? Would be nice to know if what I have is potentially the original item.

Sorry to go a bit off topic! :D
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PostPost by: bcmc33 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:15 pm

My old '65 S2 was yellow - until I had it painted Medici Blue.
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PostPost by: cabc26b » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:29 pm

I have a OEM tonneau cover that is done in grey that goes with my S1 - I also remember the the S1 interiors have a combination of gray, black and a buff/ivory - ivory door pannels , grey arm rests etc.

I have a paint formula for Medici Blue based on a profit read - it is for PPG concept ( I may have posted it elsewhere on the site)
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:10 pm

Adding this post to here as it would be nice to find it again future and two concurent posts will surely get lost to never be found agaiin.

Gary

More colors at Mike Causers page, link
http://www.mikecauser.com/lotus/parts/paint_codes.html

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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject: Early Elan Paint Colours

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was interested to read the recent threads about colours of early cars. This is an area in which my friend with unit 3088 and I have done a considerable amount of research not least in order to ensure that the cars that we are restoring are painted in as near the original colour as possible.

Although the early parts manuals list colours available for s1,s2, and early type 36 cars they specify a number which almost certainly does not cross-reference to any of the current manufacturers' codes.

The LO Lotus part numbers that appeared sometime after 1966 - perhaps in 1967/8 and their well established paint suppliers references were not used for the majority of these early cars. As an examply, LO1, British Racing Green, is most definitely not the same as the Jaguar British Racing Green used on type 26 and perhaps early type 36 cars. It is actually Rover Spruce Green, ICI code P030 2834. Interestingly, Jaguar used three different versions of British Racing Green during the 1960s and early 1970s. Luckily only one of these colour variants was used during the period of type 26 production (much darker than the LO1 British Racing Green)

I have a good friend who has been involved with Lotus paint finishing since 1965. During the 60s and 70s he used to work at Mike Spence in Maidenhead UK and has a huge wealth of knowledge regarding Lotus paint colours and has many paint suppliers original colour chips from the period.

Because I am restoring a number of early s1s and an s2 I needed to do some thorough research on early paint colours to ensure that, as far as possible, the colours were kept original. I worked closely with the above mentioned friend on this.

On the basis of this work, the ICI paint codes that we identified are:

1. Carmen Red:
P030-3097
Jaguar colour 1958-1965. Not the same as LO5 Carnival Red

2. Jaguar Racing Green:
P030-2539
Also referred to as Jaguar British Racing Green. This shade was used by Jaguar from 1957 to 1965. Not the same as LO1 BRG

3. Medici Blue
P030 3192
Many British car applicatons in the late 1950s - eg Standard 8/10, Vanguard, Ensign

4. Cirrus White
This is the same as LO4 Cirrus White and appears to be unique to Lotus

5. Fiesta Yellow

This colour seems to be a real mystery - unless anyone knows better! Although we have some ideas I am anxious only to provide information that I know to be right and if anyone has evidence of the shade and origin of this colour I would be very glad to hear from them

Of course these P030 codes from ICI are for cellulose paint. Most refinishers today use 2K paint and are now being forced to use water based paint. So it could be difficult to obtain these old cellulose colours in water based formulations, and even if you do, who knows whether the colour will be the same as the original! Nevertheless, a good paint shop should be able to do the donkey work.

Good Luck!
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PostPost by: cabc26b » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:20 pm

There is an empty section in the library of this site on paint colors - should we be contacting Jeff to transcribe / fill in the blanks along with photo's of cars painted the color(s) ?
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:13 pm

cabc26b wrote:I have a OEM tonneau cover that is done in grey that goes with my S1 - I also remember the the S1 interiors have a combination of gray, black and a buff/ivory - ivory door pannels , grey arm rests etc.

I have a paint formula for Medici Blue based on a profit read - it is for PPG concept ( I may have posted it elsewhere on the site)


Hi George

I could not find it on the site but you must have posted it as I found it on my computer.
------------------
I am the body-shop on this one so, getting the formula is not a problem, it will be for/in PPG concept - for a pint :

DMC900 - 446.8
DMC904 - 83.5
DMC937 - 40.9
DMC901 - 60.1

I think i posted a picture of sample with the car before the paint process over in the for sale section under an odd topic, you can see it there and decide if its what you need - this picture was shot with a fuji camera, I have others shot with a Ziess lens on Sony electronics , looks different, I think I may have to shoot it with a lieca with agfa film for grins to see if the color changes again......

Keep in mind the sample was only color sanded and cleaned up a little bit with 3M perfect-it 2 the finished product should have a bit more truness to the blue ( less milky...)
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:02 am

Hi George

in your formula you have given is
DMC900 - 446.8 grams/pint
DMC904 - 83.5 grams/pint
DMC937 - 40.9 grams/pint
DMC901 - 60.1 grams/pint

I think I am reading your formula as

446.8 + 83.5 + 40.9 + 60.1 = 630.3

or are the added in a sequence where the cup is zeroed and the first pigment is added to 40.9 the next color added to the first (a+b) 60.1, the third color added (a+b+c) and totaled up to 83.5 and then the balance added (a+b+c+d) for a total weight of 446.8

In the first example they are separate weights, in the second they are cumulative. This (second example) is how I have seen it done at the mixing station in the body shop.

Gary
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PostPost by: robcall » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:47 am

I've just come into possesion of a workshop manual for the Lotus Elan 1600(ie S1).
manual size 11 3/4" X 9"

2 pictures-1600 Coupe(actually a convertible) and 1600 hardtop.
The hardtop version is supplied with window locks.

Page A5
Body equipment
Carpeting-Rubber press stud fixing to floor.
Trim-washable PVC.
Colours interior trim-Atlas Grey and Light Tan
seats available in Black,Tan and Grey
Body colours Fiesta Yellow,Carmen Red,Medici Blue,
Cirrus White and British Racing Green
Ashtrays Indoor trim,both sides

A good read-not nearly as dry as the later manual with lots of exploded diagrams
Nigel Robertson
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PostPost by: cabc26b » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:45 pm

hi Gary ,

Sorry for the delay in getting back -

formula is as you mentioned and computed in cummulative parts - If you want I can shoot/psot an image of the mixing label(s)

start with 446.8 of white and add from there
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PostPost by: nono17120 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:09 pm

interesting
Thanks !!
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PostPost by: nomad » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:47 pm

This post is of particular interest to me as my S1 is going back to its original Medici blue. Photo's of George's [cabc26b] car was what convinced me. I was going to have the original paint scanned but comparing to this formula for the color or just using it since I think George's car is perfect might be nice.

I'm still confused by Gary and George's debate on how the colors are formulated however. Perhaps a body shop would know but all I've ever painted are tractors. :D

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PostPost by: nono17120 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:28 am

But, can't see the result !
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PostPost by: trw99 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:57 pm

I cant recall when I last updated this but it might help:


[attachment=0]Paint Codes TRW.pdf[/attachment]


Tim
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PostPost by: nomad » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:18 pm

Thanks, Tim. I'll see if its of use when the time comes. Hoping for this spring.

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