Lotus Elan

1972 front screen fitting ? Parts question

PostPost by: brettfcars » Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:56 am

Hi all, I Have a september 1972 Elan +2s 130, which is currently a bare shell requiring everything to be refitted after a repaint.
When purchased no front screen was fitted athough one came with the car.
My question is, I understand the screen requires bonding in but are any fill strips or is any kind of rubber seal required ? also where can i get them from ? thanks Brett
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PostPost by: peterako » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:34 am

At the very least you'll be looking for trim....

Give Sue Miller a call: +44 1728 603307 (01728 603307 in the UK)

(or email:[email protected] or website: http://www.mickmillerlotus.com)

As well as being a good source of for parts Susan is a huge knowledge resource and a genuinely nice person :)

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PostPost by: Craig Elliott » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:10 pm

Brett

This isn't easy - I ended up doing mine myself after finding it difficult to get someone else to do it for me. I tried several different companies including some of the big national windscreen companies and a couple of classic Lotus specialists and they wanted me to get the car to their workshops (difficult as it had no windsreen or MOT and I don't have a trailer etc) and it was going to be very expensive - one quote was ?600 not including parts. This is a bit long-winded but just so you can decide how you get it done, this is roughly what you have to do....

You'll need:
- the windscreen
- the plastic trim with the metal foil in it that goes around the screen - these have been unbtainable in the UK but I believe they will be available again soon.
- the metal corner pieces
- a windscreen bonding kit (this includes the mastic for bonding the windscreen on and a tin of primer that goes on the windscreen, the inside of the trim and the aperture in the car - I got mine from SJ Sportscars, it may be possible to find other suppliers via the web) - note the mastic comes in a tube that you put in the same type of "gun" that you use for silicon sealing bathrooms etc. and I found that one tube was only just enough.

You'll also need a suitable stand for the screen (I used a workmate with foam taped to the work surface), possibly a suction handle for lifting it, assored clips/clamps and tape for shaping and fixing the trim to the screen, a good hot air gun preferably with variable heat control for shaping the trim, and an assistant - as well as plenty of time and a warm workshop (or a warm day).

Fitting the windscreen is a pretty involved process - you need to prime the edges of the screen and the "u"channel in the trim, shape and cut the trim to fit the screen (this will require careful warming of the trim and clamping it to the screen to shape it - get it too hot and the trim will buckle and the metal foil in it will crease), glue the trim to the screen with the mastic, prime the trim where it glues to the car and the windscreen aperture on the car itself, put the mastic in the windscreen aperture, fit the screen and carefully press and hold it in place while warming the trim to allow it to flex so that you get a good seal.

Like I said above, it's not easy (!) but it is possible to do it yourself. If you're doing a complete trim and paint job remember to fit the headlining first...

Craig
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PostPost by: brettfcars » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:30 pm

Thanks for replies, i will check with both suppliers mentioned to see what trim is curently avalible.
And thanks Craig for that step by step fitting guide, that plastic trim you mention sounds a nightmare to fit !
Some thing i do have to do first is to fit a new rooflining and "a" piller trim (?).
Is this just rolled over and glued into the windscreen apeature and then the screen is then bonded in, or does a pice of "u" trim, clip around the screen hole, holding the roof lining in place and the screen is then bonded in ?
I think i should of payed more attention the last time i saw a compleat +2 !
thanks again
Brett
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PostPost by: Craig Elliott » Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:31 pm

The headlining is glued into place around the "a" pillars, the top of the front windscreen, door apertures and rear windscreen. There is a black "U" shaped rubber/metal trim that goes over this around the windscreen aperture (see the photos below - and yes I do need to sort my garage out!) - you can get this from Woolies near Market Deeping in the UK if not from the usual Lotus specialists. The door and rear windscreen rubbers also go over the headlining.

Before you start fitting the headining, remember to make a template, or templates to show you where the screw holes for the sunvisors and rear view mirrors are. You'll also need to glue in place some foam padding - this goes up the "a" pillars and across the front 8 ins or so of roof. It also goes over the rear 8ins of roof, covering the fuel tank breather hoses.

There is a trick to fitting the headlining that I got from one of the people doing a demo of fitting a new headlining at one of the Club Lotus meets. Hopefully you'll still have the number markings (splodges of paint) on the tubular headlining hoops that hold the lining up. These often go rusty and stain the headlining so it's probably wise to clean them up and use some sort of rust preventer before painting them - while doing this make sure you remember the order and re-mark them. The trick is to find the centre line of the car at the front and rear windscreen apertures and the headlining and mark them so that the marks won't show once fitted, put the hoops in the headlining and fit them in place on the car, move the headlining around so that the centre lines match up. Then when you're ready to fix the lining in place, glue the apertures and the edge of the lining (there is a special glue for this that is better able to withstand heat than evo-stick) and start from the front and rear centrelines, clamping the headlining in place tightly - the rest then follows, pulling it reasonably tightly to avoid wrinkles and clamping in place (lots of bulldog clips helped!).

Craig
Attachments
screen trim and headlining.JPG and
Rh A pillar.JPG and
screen and surround.JPG and
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PostPost by: Gordon Sauer » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:24 am

Great directions on how to do this--does the lower edge of the windshield also get the u shaped trim--that is, in front of the dash pad? And if a source appears for the foil lined, clear plastic windshield seal, that would help--mine was never used but too yellow now and wrinkled foil--yours looks great. Gordon Sauer
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PostPost by: gerrym » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:47 pm

Alternative approach is to use the rubber molding without metalplastic trim; this is the approach used by Spyder for their Zetec conversions. I don't know the donor car.

In my opinion, it looks OK as long as the bottom corners of the body molding (fibreglass) have been filled in.

Does anyone have a picture of a car done this way?

If anyone is interested, I will post a picture of the trim section (not yet fitted).


Regards

Gerry
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PostPost by: Craig Elliott » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:42 pm

Gerry, I think you use the same type of rubber moulding as you use for the rear screen. One issue with this is that I'm pretty sure you have to re-shape the flange (?) around the top and sides of the windscreen surround and create one at the bottom so that the winscreen fits "in" it rather than against it. I suspect that, unless you have the moulds or can by shaped pieces to do this, the fibreglassing involved sounds even more hassle than fitting the bonded screen...

Gordon - no, the lower section does't have the u shaped trim, there is a step in the bottom of the windscreen aperture that the screen fits against. It's worth reading the workshop manual (pg 55 section B) before doing this - although I don't think you can get the butyl strips they refer to anymore. The pictures also show a different interior finishing strip. I'm not 100% sure how original the one I've used is - it was identical to the old one I took off my car but I know that the screen was replaced in the early 1980s.

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PostPost by: Gordon Sauer » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:31 am

Craig-you note the 8' wide foam that is at front and rear areas of roof under headliner--with drumming issues about these cars, any thoughts of doing thin foam additionally over all of roof. It seems the 8" section of foam is about half inch and I was going to use about quarter inch foam (actually lightly padded car headliner) over the rest of area so as to not be so thick as to disturb bows that it looks like will touch roof when headliner installed. Gordon Sauer
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PostPost by: Craig Elliott » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:58 pm

The 8 inches of foam I mention is approximate - if you haven't already taken the old headlining down, you'll see roughly where I mean from the glue and old foam left stuck to the roof...

As far as preventing drumming, I suspect that the padding foam used will have little effect - maybe it would be better to see of you can get the proper sound insulation foam in a thin enough form to at least go in strips in-between the headlining hoops without pressing into the headlining?

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PostPost by: Craig Elliott » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:18 pm

...you should see what I mean from the attached photos. C
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Front roof.JPG and
rear roof.JPG and
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PostPost by: brettfcars » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:41 pm

Hi all, i have moved forward a lot since last posting in this thread.
The headlining is in, as is the dash and dash top and I am moving on with the interior etc.
However i still have to fit the screen.
Has any one had any luck in finding the silver plastic trim used when bonding in the screen ?
I last tried to find some a couple of months ago from all the suggested suspects with none being available (although told some was in trial production).
I am hopping for a early spring launch date but this won't happen if no screen trim available !
In my slowly diminishing pile of parts yet to be fitted i do have the bottom section and the trim joints for the early type stainless trim , but no sides and top with corners ?
If this was compleat i understand at least one owner had used them in the bonding in of a screen ?
Yet again any thoughts or advice on the subject appreciated !
Brett
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PostPost by: martinbrowning » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:22 pm

Brett,
I was able to source the correct silver trim for my 1972 S130 from Dave Bean in California last summer. Might be worth giving them a buzz - helpful and friendly people.

Good luck,

Martin B
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PostPost by: Craig Elliott » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:41 pm

I think it's now available again in the UK from the usual suspects.
C
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PostPost by: Robbie693 » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:28 pm

As an aside to this, does anyone have a picture of the black inner trim strip that goes around the interior side of the screen?

Mine is missing and I was given a sample piece by the guys at Paul Matty but it's a 'U' section and obviously won't fit with the screen already installed. The trim in the manual is an 'L' shape that attaches to the butyl strip but I don't know if this is available as original..?

Cheers

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