26r identities and other info

[elansprint71]

................... just for once, it would be nice to get all the top Elans in the UK onto the track at the same time without the big-banger mobile chicanes.
Maybe the 50th anniversary will be an opportunity for enlightened race-promoters to do this, however, I fear the the dreary MG-B millions will swamp that off the programme.

Well it seems that big money talks, the same handful of tweed-jacketed/tattersall-checked billionaires who raced their E-Types this year at Goodwood will next year be racing their Cobras in an exclusive race.

Forward, Elan Comrades, to the barricades.

[toomspj]

I'm putting together an Elan to FIA appendix K spec - should be on the track in February if I have a shell by then.

Now I was planning to do it as a GTS car using my '65 S2 #26/4103 as the donor. But reading this thread has inspired me to just create a 26R clone (legal in FIA terms I believe) and give it a 26R chassis number.

Who has a list of what S2 26R's raced in period and that haven't yet resurfaced? One grandfather's broom is as good as another, right?

Paul

[twincamman]

works for some no reason it wont for you ----you could take the numbers right up to 1966 according to some 'experts' - --ed

[trw99]

I'm putting together an Elan to FIA appendix K spec - should be on the track in February if I have a shell by then.

Now I was planning to do it as a GTS car using my '65 S2 #26/4103 as the donor. But reading this thread has inspired me to just create a 26R clone (legal in FIA terms I believe) and give it a 26R chassis number.

Who has a list of what S2 26R's raced in period and that haven't yet resurfaced? One grandfather's broom is as good as another, right?

Paul

Hi Paul

I'm not sure if your tongue is firmly in your cheek or not! Please illuminate us because if your proposal is serious it causes me a problem, though I have a potential solution.

On the other hand, if you ain't serious, you reeled me in there for a moment!

Tim

[bigvalvehead]

Hi Ed

Actually 11 S2 26r's left the factory between 1/1/66 and 23/7/66 according to the factory build sheets.

Cheers
Dave

[twincamman]

Hi Dave --good to know because Lotus has no idea what cars went where or when or how they were equipped or who got them -----according to my letter from them ---ed

[toomspj]

Tim,
Well, I started off thinking it was a bit cheeky, but then when you look at the various constraints, it might make more sense to build a 26R Clone than a GTS car if one wants to adhere strictly to Appendix K - things like wheels, hubs etc.

Now most people just build something that is pretty close to a 26R and call it a GTS car and then nobody bothers with the niceties. But what's wrong with going the clone route, being completely above board (so no fraudulent intent) and then being in compliance with the regs. Plenty of other marques do it (such as Cobras). There's hardly a 26R out there with an original body, chassis, engine, transmission, drive train, suspension.. Maybe the steering wheel is original.

What's your solution?

Paul

[trw99]

Paul

Firstly, can we look at what you said above "and give it a 26R chassis number. Who has a list of what S2 26R's raced in period and that haven't yet resurfaced?" This is where I have a problem since, as someone interested in Lotus history, I feel we should not attempt to re-write it! In other words, once a car is gone, written-off, destroyed - it is dead.

I, and I suspect the DVLA, would have a problem with someone buying a LR chassis, bodyshell and engine, building up an Elan and then saying it was 45/1234, when in fact the original 45/1234 was totally destroyed in a fire in 1970. I believe the same to apply to the use of a 26R number, where the original was either destroyed or had not been heard of since 1967. What if 50 years hence that car was to come out of the barn it was parked up in, whilst you were running around in it's clone? Who would know which was the genuine car?

Secondly, let's look at what could be done to assist you. If you were to build up a 26R to original specification/plans, we could, either through the factory or Club Lotus or the FIA (whoever it may be most appropriate to do this with) get you issued with a new number that recognises the car as a new one and with a fresh provenance. So for example the number might be something like 26R-LR-01. In this way everyone would know it was a continuation 26R and thus be able to place it correctly historically. In fact, look at what Lotus still do with Elan replacement chassis; they give them a LR number, so that future owners know the chassis is not original.

Lastly, I believe you could make a case for building up a 26R and calling it 26R-S2-22 (just for example), provided you had parts of that original car, say the wheel hubs, gear lever, two wheels and diff (again, just for example) and you could demonstrate the line of continuous provenance for the car and the parts.

I know I am coming at this from a somewhat narrow and purely historical perspective, but that is what happens to interest me. Whereas I know you just want the fun of getting a car together and racing it, which is fine. However, I do feel we have enough problems with existing Lotus records and historical fact, without adding to it today! I should also point out that I have very little idea about the current FIA rules concerning historic racing, so please excuse me if I have either stated the obvious or committed any gross acts of stupidity in what I have written!

Tim

[twincamman]

here we go ------- ----Paul ! build your car the way you want to and stop toadying to the ' self appointed expert' opinions expressed here . The ideas pontificated here are based on a contrived 'list; compiled from 50 year old recollections guess work and wishful thinking . The factory has no idea of where the cars went as they apparently didn't bother to keep records, this is according to Lotus itself . So just build your car according to the rule book of the race group in which you intend to compete and don't give these people the opportunity to expound negatively on your efforts --ed

[toomspj]

Tim
I am an ardent fan of keeping things original, or more correctly in period. I've got an Elan Sprint DHC which is about as original as you can get apart from roll cage, driveshafts, tyres and dampers (all removable). Haven't changed the chassis, body or messed with engine and box (although it's got the original Lumenition ignition from the seventies). I've got an S1 with an original Lotus Chassis (don't know if it's the original or not although it does have the number 0308 stamped on it) and original body complete with numbers etc. It seemed almost sacriligous to scrap all that originality that I decided to keep it that way and race it in Roadsports. As I said, this current project started off with an S2 heritage that had no hope whatsoever of being restored to a road car, so I don't think I'm destroying anything. It does have DVLA paperwork and I am using some of the original parts on my race car.

I've also got an S4 racer which is an original car but of dubious lineage, and another DHC Sprint as a project with full history going back to it's birth. So far as possible I use all these cars either on the road or the track as appropriate and let family and friends have a go too - it was a bit scary the other day being a passenger in my racer when number one son applied power a little too early and we went so far into the Goodwood infield that I thought we might reach the airstrip.

However, this 26R thing is getting fairly ridiculous in my view. Several people that race them competitively are replacing entire bodyshells, chassis, suspension, hubs, engine blocks and heads, carbs - absolutely everything - just so they can be ultra competitive. I'm not sure what is left of the original - and if you apply some significant provenance to these phoenix like cars (even though everyone knows they were destroyed by fire) then the value seems to go through the roof.

So, I'm not suggesting distorting history or laying claim that my car is an original 26R. Merely thinking of cloning one.

[bigvalvehead]

Hi Dave --good to know because Lotus has no idea what cars went where or when or how they were equipped or who got them -----according to my letter from them ---ed

Hi Ed
Your letter from GROUP LOTUS says they have no records from Team Lotus they also apparently have no records from Lotus Components. That does not mean that these records do not or have never existed and I for one know of several people who have copies of the build sheets for the 26R cars.

It lists the customer, the agent, engine type, engine no, gbox type, body colour,frame no, exworks date and extras such as LSD.

Your implication that these lists are contrived is incorrect as they have been in existence long before the cars became so sought after or so valuable.

Peter Pulver who ran Dutchess Autos has told me at one of several meetings I've had with him that he no longer has any of his records but his memory is still very good and his recollections of cars that went through his hands match with the list I have and with info I have found from others.

Dave Hughes

[trw99]

here we go ------- ----Paul ! build your car the way you want to and stop toadying to the ' self appointed expert' opinions expressed here . The ideas pontificated here are based on a contrived 'list; compiled from 50 year old recollections guess work and wishful thinking . The factory has no idea of where the cars went as they apparently didn't bother to keep records, this is according to Lotus itself . So just build your car according to the rule book of the race group in which you intend to compete and don't give these people the opportunity to expound negatively on your efforts --ed

Ed

I have often written on here words to the effect 'It's your car and you can do what you want to it'. Paul is clearly his own man and will equally clearly do with his what he wishes.

I am at a loss to understand your 'self appointed expert' remark as much as your use of the word pontification. I have never claimed to be an Elan expert, merely an Elan enthusiast with an interest in originality and historical fact. Furthermore, I have reiterated in my recent posts that I am not as knowledgeable about the early Elans as some others, since the Sprint is my particular interest.

One of the tasks that I have been carrying out over recent years is to attempt to rebuild Elan records to show how each car originally left the factory, initially for the Sprint, but now for all Elans and +2s, for the CLES. We all know that we shall never entirely replicate those records, but at least it's worth trying. The factory are fully aware of this and have been and continue to be most supportive. It is our wish to pass on what information we can to future generations of Elan owners in a spirit of co-operation and enthusiasm for the Elan.

Final note, I have always supported the right for each of us to hold and express an opinion on here; long may that continue.

Tim

[twincamman]

Tim my apologies The comment was not intended for you personally . Back in the day .when I teched cars between my races race sedans and production cars were based on uncertifieable cars with an occasional new or newer vehicle from a participating dealer in the mix . The cars were stripped and made into racers with no consideration as to serial numbers or model or much else as long as they fit a class . Now there are sacred numbers and all manner of claims put up by people who claim knowledge and place barriers on competition models with no printed record other than common beliefs or legends , my point is racing is slowly failing and ALL cars should be allowed to enter events if they are period prepared . just because an elan chassis has a few more bits welded to it should have no more affect on its entry to an event as an elan that doesn't -----back to the joke page ---ed

[elanfan1]

Whilst I 'think' I know what you are getting at you are not helping us or doing yourself any favours in getting your point over as your posts are so difficult to read.

Can I suggest a couple more paragraphs would be in order, fewer 90+ word sentences and maybe a read through before posting. You seem to know where you are going with some comments you make but it leaves the rest of us flailing as you seem to lose the point or go off at a tangent halfway through.

Help us out here.

For others .. Ed has deleted his very lengthy single paragraph rambling post. Shame really my kids were looking forward to pulling it apart. They're 11 and spell correctly, can construct paragraphs/sentences that make sense and that don't have full stops in the middle of them. Someone else on here used the phrase 'can barely string a sentence together' - quite apt.

[elansprint71]

I suggest that Paul builds a 26/R Shapecraft- either one with the alluminium fast-back or a Canadian version with no roof at all.