chassis repairs

[c.beijersbergen]

Hello listers,

Following an offlist discussion I had with a fellow lister I'd like to raise
the issue of Elan chassis repairs. Most Elans will by now have their
original chassis replaced by either a genuine Lotus item or the alternative
Spyder. The main reason for this replacement is rusting of the old chassis
at the underside of the front suspension turrets. I seems everyone accepts
the statement in the Elan manual that repairs of the chassis are not
possible. I did the same a couple of years ago and bought a new chassis.
The old chassis I now have standing in my shed is sound for 80-90%. Only the
front turrets are weakened to a degree where I find it unsafe to use in this
condition. But it gives me the unpleasant feeling that wasting a complete
chassis when it is only partly degraded is not needed.. After professional
repair it should be possible to have it used again. I do not have any
serious plans in that direction, but that might change when the possibility
arrives.

I have always considered the Lotus statement that Elan chassis can not be
repaired nonsense. Probably commercial motives and the wish to prevent bad
repairs which could degrade the cars handling are behind this. But from the
viewpoint of a mechanical engineer I can't find a good reason why a capable
well equiped workshop couldn't do it. It is normal sheet steel with simple
shapes and there is no special technology or material treatment involved.
Good fixtures to arrive at the right geometry will be needed of course. When
I see from different sources recommandations for chassis modifications to
improve strength and stiffness (Elan 26 R, Tony Thompson, AVO) that all
include extensive welding to the chassis then a replacement or strengthening
of a front turret must be possible as well. Also Spyder have (or had) a
chassis exchange scheme where you get a used Lotus chassis with a new Spyder
front section welded to it.

Does any lister have experience with chassis repairs or an opinion that
might shed new light on it?

Greetings from

Cor Beijersbergen van Henegouwen
70 S4 SE FHC (with Lotus replacement chassis)
and 1 old chassis that might be repairable

[Brian Walton]

I think that after 30 years 16 gauge steel is just getting to the end of its
useful life on an original chassis. I'm sure you could repair it, but in
reality in may end up costing 40-50% of the cost of a replacement after
careful welding and alignment.

What to do with the old chassis? Garden modern art maybe? Has
anybody come up with an inventive suggestion?

Brian

[Arno Church]

Cor
This is purely my experience and opinion

I bought my car with a front right hand corner damage. After a complete strip down and a decent inspection, we found the chassis in very good nick , no rust etc but with the r f tower and vacuum tank badly bent.

I measured everything up and using the dimensions given in the Manual, we made up a new r f tower and vacuum tank and this was welded onto the chassis by a chap who's welding I completely trust ( This chap builds Seven replicas for a living and he has fabricated a complete new chassis for a Lotus Seven S4 as well as a complete chassis for a Lotus 18., amongst others)

The repairs to my chassis came out extremely well and the whole chassis was painstakingly checked against the Manual dimensions. I've ran the car regularly on the road for 18 months and had the car on track at two track days and have not experienced any problems related to the chassis

So I do agree that chassis repairs and replacements of sections are indeed possible with very good results. I know thjere is a company in Australia, The Elan Factory, that also does similar chassis repairs

I do think the main reason that Lotus state that chassis repairs should not be undertaken and chassis must be replaced with factory units but I do think this has all to do with liabilities etc
I do think that anyone competent, experienced and with the necessary equipment and facilities can build these chassis. Afterall Tony Thompson Racing is not the original factory and the make replacement chassis
Arno

[c.beijersbergen]

Hi Brian,
The car (and chassis) in question has been in my posession since 1978. It
has always been stored inside and I have driven it almost never ind wet
weather conditions. The chassis had a lot of oil and grease all over
(except the parts in the engine area).

As an answer to the question 'what to do with an old chassis..' the first
thing that comes to mind is to build a car on it. That's why a think about
reparation.

Cor Beijersbergen van Henegouwen


-


I think that after 30 years 16 gauge steel is just getting to the end of its
useful life on an original chassis. I'm sure you could repair it, but in
reality in may end up costing 40-50% of the cost of a replacement after
careful welding and alignment.

What to do with the old chassis? Garden modern art maybe? Has
anybody come up with an inventive suggestion?

Brian

["David Comeau"]

Hello
When I got my +2 ( http://www.gis.net/~dynodave/lotus.htm )in the
early 80's, the replacement chassis' weren't available at the time. So
I made a jig (which I still have) for aligning the 4 suspension pins.
New uprights on both sides were made and installed. I drove the car
for 50,000 miles.
The chassis is now failing, but not at the area of my work but behind
the motor mounts. The car had been in a fire and I believe this is the
reason for failure.
I am going to install another chassis that had been in an accident,
one upright was bent over, so I repaired this frame in a similar
fashion by replacing both uprights and then reattaching the front
crossmembeer to the chassis. On both chassis the original suspension
pins were off from the factory dimensional specs. This was also
corrected.
Clearly, this is not a typical DIY repair.
I've done 3 chassis frontend reconstructions over the years.
Dave


--- In lotuselan@y..., "c. beijersbergen" <c.beijersbergen@h...>
wrote:

[was]

Just leave it at the front of the house. The wife will figure out how to
make it disappear soon enough.

Brian Walton wrote:

[elansprint71]

Cor,
I too am a Mechanical Engineer and see no reason why the original chassis should not be almost infinitely repairable, unless involved in a catastrophic accident. However, I can see a good many reasons for not wanting to do this; not least the relative cheapness of a Lotus replacement which is betterquality than the old one ever was.
The above reason is not the one which will make me choose Spyder over Lotuswhen I get around to replacing the original chassis on my Sprint one of these Winters: the way I see it is that the Lotus Elan is a monocoque fibreglass car which has a large steel subframe, whereas I see a Spyder chassis Elan as a steel chassis car which has a monocoque fibreglass body attached.

Take it from there boys.........

Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: c. beijersbergen
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:56 AM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] chassis repairs


Hello listers,

Following an offlist discussion I had with a fellow lister I'd like to raise
the issue of Elan chassis repairs. Most Elans will by now have their
original chassis replaced by either a genuine Lotus item or the alternative
Spyder. The main reason for this replacement is rusting of the old chassis
at the underside of the front suspension turrets. I seems everyone accepts
the statement in the Elan manual that repairs of the chassis are not
possible. I did the same a couple of years ago and bought a new chassis.
The old chassis I now have standing in my shed is sound for 80-90%. Only the
front turrets are weakened to a degree where I find it unsafe to use in this
condition. But it gives me the unpleasant feeling that wasting a complete
chassis when it is only partly degraded is not needed.. After professional
repair it should be possible to have it used again. I do not have any
serious plans in that direction, but that might change when the possibility
arrives.

I have always considered the Lotus statement that Elan chassis can not be
repaired nonsense. Probably commercial motives and the wish to prevent bad
repairs which could degrade the cars handling are behind this. But from the
viewpoint of a mechanical engineer I can't find a good reason why a capable
well equiped workshop couldn't do it. It is normal sheet steel with simple
shapes and there is no special technology or material treatment involved.
Good fixtures to arrive at the right geometry will be needed of course. When
I see from different sources recommandations for chassis modifications to
improve strength and stiffness (Elan 26 R, Tony Thompson, AVO) that all
include extensive welding to the chassis then a replacement or strengthening
of a front turret must be possible as well. Also Spyder have (or had) a
chassis exchange scheme where you get a used Lotus chassis with a new Spyder
front section welded to it.

Does any lister have experience with chassis repairs or an opinion that
might shed new light on it?

Greetings from

Cor Beijersbergen van Henegouwen
70 S4 SE FHC (with Lotus replacement chassis)
and 1 old chassis that might be repairable








.

[mklfj]

I made a new turrent for an S2 back in 1985. Never did put any miles on the
car, so can't affirm how well it held up. Arc welded it up with
dimensions/sizes made prior to replacement and per the shop manual. So, yes,
I believe that an able bodied fabricator can duplicate parts of the chassis
for replacement.

[Billmack]

Dear Cor,
I repaired my chassis which had trouble with the turrets and crossmember
by cutting the turrets off level with the top of the crossmember and applying
them to the top instead of the sides of the new crossmember which I made from
square tube with the ends capped off and tubes inserted for the lower control
arm mount (a la spyder)
The rotted parts are cut off and the remaining pieces of the turret are also
stiffer.I also reinforced at the top and bottom of the main rails.
I also repaired another one by cutting off the front clip through the
holes in the main rails,making angled doubler plates which I attached to one
side then slipped the new clip over and measured ,tacked,whacked it around
for alignment,then finish welded.
GO for it,don't be scared.
Bill Mack

[c.beijersbergen]

Hello Bill,
That's the spirit!

Did you by any chance make drawings, sketches or photographs before hiding
the chassis under the body again? I am intrigued by and interested in what
you did.

greetings from
Cor Beijersbergen van Henegouwen


Dear Cor,
I repaired my chassis which had trouble with the turrets and crossmember
by cutting the turrets off level with the top of the crossmember and
applying
them to the top instead of the sides of the new crossmember which I made
from
square tube with the ends capped off and tubes inserted for the lower
control
arm mount (a la spyder)
The rotted parts are cut off and the remaining pieces of the turret are
also
stiffer.I also reinforced at the top and bottom of the main rails.
I also repaired another one by cutting off the front clip through the
holes in the main rails,making angled doubler plates which I attached to one
side then slipped the new clip over and measured ,tacked,whacked it around
for alignment,then finish welded.
GO for it,don't be scared.
Bill Mack

[c.beijersbergen]

Hello Pete,

For more or less the same reason I used a new Lotus chassis instead of a
Spyder. Although I think the Spyder is good, perhaps better than the Lotus.
But I would not consider repairing the chassis by welding on new front parts
without introducing at the same time some of the chassis modifications as
applied in the 26R and by Tony Thompson or AVO. Not to go racing, but a few
extra kilo's of steel can improve the chassis considerably.

Greetings from

Cor Beijersbergen van Henegouwen

Cor,
I too am a Mechanical Engineer and see no reason why the original chassis
should not be almost infinitely repairable, unless involved in a
catastrophic accident. However, I can see a good many reasons for not
wanting to do this; not least the relative cheapness of a Lotus replacement
which is better quality than the old one ever was.
The above reason is not the one which will make me choose Spyder over Lotus
when I get around to replacing the original chassis on my Sprint one of
these Winters: the way I see it is that the Lotus Elan is a monocoque
fibreglass car which has a large steel subframe, whereas I see a Spyder
chassis Elan as a steel chassis car which has a monocoque fibreglass body
attached.

Take it from there boys.........

Pete

[rgh0]

I have seen a large number of chassis repairs over the years in Australia
and contemplated doing major repairs to both my Elan and Plus 2 chassis. In
both cases the cost of the repairs was near to the cost of a new chassis and
I bought new instead

For the Elan it was in 1980 and I bought a new lotus chassis due to major
poorly repaired damage from the PO to the front uprights and crossmember
failing. The original chassis now hangs as a chandelier in the stairwell of
my house.

For the plus 2 rust damage in the backbone under the felt lead to its
replacement with a spyder chassis in 1990. The improved stiffness of the
sypder chassis makes a big improvement to the plus 2's handling compared to
the orginal chassis. The difference with an Elan is not noticeable. I sold
the old chassis to someone who was going to repair it to replace a damaged
chassis he had.

I have seen many repairs or replacement sections on chasiss that others have
done over the last 20 years. Up until recently most repairs were bad
backyard jobs done on the basis of minimal cost. Recently in Australia at
least a number of people ( including The Elan Factory) have developed the
skills to do a good job at a reasonable cost provided the damage is not to
great and the results I have seen in these rebuilds has been excellent.

The issue is finding someone with the skills to do a proper job locally and
then comparing the cost to a new chassis.

A repair can certainly be done to any chassis it is just a question of is
the cost warranted versus a new one.

Rohan

[garyeanderson]

I think that Rohan has it stated correctly, the other concern is
resale value of the Elan when done. "I repaired the Chassis myself"
has me looking else where, as in my offer just went down by
substantually, verses a new chassis (Spyder at ?1175, Tony Thompson
at ? 1350 or Galvanized factory at ?) less of a chance that there
will be problems in the future. The amount of work to remove, clean,
sandblast, Repair, paint and reinstall a repaired chassis is not
generaly worth it. There is enough other parts to clean, blast,
paint, and recondition to keep you busy. In the U.S. or england the
cost of a new frame ~$2200 or ?1175 is not worth it to my way of
thinking. in other parts of the world it may well be the way to
go.

Gary

--- In lotuselan@y..., "Rohan Hodges" <rghodge@o...> wrote:
In both cases the cost of the repairs was near to the cost of a new
chassis and I bought new instead


finding someone with the skills to do a proper job locally and

[Billmack]

Cor
Sorry for the delay in response.I will try to photograph the chassis
repair and write you by week's end.
Bill Mack