COOLING the ELAN/+2/EUROPA

[45bvtc]

There is NOTHING generally wrong the standard Elan/+2/Europa cooling system! It worked on many racing ?lans in the 60's without problem.

However, in my own experience, owning and maintaining ?lans for 40-years, one generally overlooked issue should be resolved first i.e. make sure the cooling system is able to maintain coolant to full capacity.

The standard radiator filler cap is designed to both expel excess coolant under pressure to the expansion bottle (as the system gets hot) and retrieve coolant from the expansion bottle under vacuum (as the system cools down). It is the mechanics of this retrieval that?s the problem.

Let's consider that the cooling system (including expansion bottle) has been filled in the normal manner i.e., all 4-wheels on the ground and the radiator filler neck BELOW the thermostat outlet. Now, as the engine goes through its first heat cycle, the air retained within the cooling system is expelled via the radiator filler cap/neck and expansion pipe and into the expansion bottle from where it will go to atmosphere. As the cooling system cools, a vacuum is created within the engine cooling system and, providing the expansion pipe is below the water level in the expansion tank (and that the expansion pipe to radiator is air tight) then the vacuum valve in the standard radiator filler cap will allow coolant, and ONLY coolant, to be drawn back from the expansion bottle and into the cooling system; thus filling the cooling system with coolant.

The MAJOR problem experienced by owners today is that the filler cap rarely seals on the metal-face of the standard radiator filler neck. The metal-face of the filler neck is usually distorted and/or damaged (nicked). Therefore, a vacuum cannot be created and the coolant volume not restored. In short, coolant is lost from the system during heat cycles only to be replaced with air.

ANSWER: fit a 1mm thick rubber/neoprene seal to the standard pressure relief filler cap.

The flat (non-pressure relief) radiator filler neck sealing caps that are available DO have a thin rubber/neoprene seal. Get a flat cap, remove the rubber/neoprene seal and fit that to your standard pressure relief filler cap, fill the radiator with coolant, and fit the now 'sealed' radiator pressure relief filler cap.

Providing the rest of the system is in good order; I'll be amazed if that doesn?t cure your problem (on this and any other car you have with a metal-face filler neck).

PLEASE try this simple resolution BEFORE spending lots of money on modified radiators, water pumps, coolant additives, etc., none of which will solve the basic problem.

The standard cooling system works (every time I remove my radiator filler cap the radiator is FULL of coolant). It worked on racing ?lans in the 60's. It has worked on my Elan for the past 35-years and 250,000 miles (including the in-roads, coastal roads, and Alpine regions of summer France and Italy) without problem.

So to the picture: #1 is of a flat cap with seal; #2 is of the seal removed, #3 is of the standard radiator filler cap, and #3 is of my current filler cap with seal fitted.

Hope this helps?

[elansprint71]

Welcome to the forum.

Presumably, as no-one had responded to your post in the other current thread on cooling (after only 1 hr 30 mins on a global forum you might want to give it a bit more time, in future) you decided that you were being ignored and copied your post, starting yet another cooling thread.

My recollection of racing Elans way back "in the day"; when they were much newer than they are now, is that overheating was not unknown. Presumably that is why a 3-litre cross-flow ally rad and 6-litre oil-cooler were homologated back in May '63; with a separate header tank the following season. I can't exactly recall when the "big" ally rad was introduced for hotter climes/longer races but it was not much later, and for good reason.

Your advice is sound but assumes that all the bits and pieces we deal with today are in "as new" condition, which, is far from the case, for most of us.

From the tone of your post I deduce that you may well be one of my former Physics Masters. Presumably you are not Keith Frank re-inventing himself?

[cliveyboy]

I always use and advise any customers to use a rubber seal.
Metal to metal joints tend not to seal at low pressures and not the best thing if you want to start pulling a vacuum.
I did manage to source a radiator cap for a classic Ford that had the extra seal underneath the cap.

Clive

[Spyder fan]

Just my tuppence worth.

Race cars are not road cars, the only traffic they meet is back markers if driven well. By their very nature they are driven fast and revved high, the former provides high volumes of cooling air and the latter produces high volume flow of the coolant through the system. A slow warm up lap or delay on the starting grid will see the temperature gauge rise worryingly quickly.

Road cars are not always as well maintained as they should be, the original design in an Elan works okay when used with an original spec engine in good mechanical order. Lack of maintenance or lack of knowledge especially the non-realisation that components have a shelf life and will require replacement over time regardless of the amount of use they are put to appears to be the main problem.

BTW: Good pictures and a sound explanation of how the original system works, I suspect there are a load of Elans fitted with standard Rad caps without the rubber seal.

Regards

[cliveyboy]

Ironically as I typed my last reply I did not notice sat on my desk an old cap taken off a Plus 2 rad
It has the extra seal. It is a 7lb cap made by AC and has the number J8 stamped on it and underneath it RSI. I am guessing that means "Rubber Seal".
Clive

[miked]

Good point about the cap outer seal. I have just done it about a month ago being paranoid about drawing (air) back from the recuperator bottle circuit. I fitted a top hose filler cap/neck in nice allloy and the new take off pipe spout leaked. That had to be sealed with epoxy.

Good Pics and explanation. Another subtle item that can catch us all.

Mike

[bcmc33]

Your advice is sound but assumes that all the bits and pieces we deal with today are in "as new" condition, which, is far from the case, for most of us.

From the tone of your post I deduce that you may well be one of my former Physics Masters. Presumably you are not Keith Frank re-inventing himself?

I can't say I understand your bitching on this one, Pete.

The basic device from 3380 H is well meant and well delivered - although I would have done it in about 3 lines and not a War & Piece essay.

When I uprated my car three years ago with a full width ally radiator and two 10" puller fans, I had two incidents of overheating and boiling. I was privately embarrassed that it took two incidents to realise the cause of the problem - the rad cap was not sealing effectively. I cured the problem by fitting an additional neoprene seal in the cap. It does take more than average effort to fit and remove, but I am confident that a good seal has been effected.

[diggerdog]

Had a new rad last year and the water was always low when the engine went cold after a run. It was same in the old rad really. Mines an AC cap with no seal. Made a seal like this guy said and the rads stayed full all week. Didn't have to buy anything. Just cut it out of thin rubber. Rads now pulling the water out of the bottle. Magic!

[EEED]

Hi,

Thanks for the posts on my original thread.

What happened on the cars that didn't have a recouperator bottle (or did they all have one but mine's had the one fitted originally removed at some point during its life?).

Paul

[cliveyboy]

I remember one early Elan owner saying he just had a pipe pointing straight down onto the road.
Clive

[elj221c]

Could have been me! I never had a bottle on my (alledgedly) sprinting prepared car. It never overheated even commuting in London during the heat of '76. BRM cams and all that as well but with a nice clean Marston rad and the two bladed metal appology for a fan.

I guess some do overheat and some don't........

[EEED]

OK thanks, confirms what I thought.

Paul

[diggerdog]

If you want to keep your cooling system full of coolant then you've got to have an overflow bottle. Look at the workshop manual guys, page 2 of section K - cooling system.

And make sure you have the right radiator filler cap with small siphon valve and rubber seal as 3380 H said.

And make sure you?ve got a 74 degree thermostat for the summer.

Mine is now A1. I reckon I could have saved myself some cash if I'd have done that first, maybe didn't need a new radiator.

Stay cool.

[prloz]

From the parts list recuperator bottle was introduced at chassis 7895, along with the narrow rad. No bottle before then.
Regards,
Peter.